Plato’s Republic, Book II

hese questions aren’t meant to be exclusive, and it is my hope that the discussion will range pretty far afield from these topics. Don’t feel the need to restrain yourselves – my questions are just meant as jumping-off points. The books we are reading (starting with Plato) are very rich. All that being said, some things you might consider are:

In book II, we see Glaucon and his brother Adeimantus take up the case made by Thrasymachus, and strengthen it. How strong is the presentation that they make? How should we think about their separate arguments?

In the story of the ring of Gyges, Glaucon is trying to show that the only thing that keeps us from doing injustice is a lack of power. If we had the ring of Gyges, we too would be unjust. Do you think he is right? Why or why not?
What about the city/soul analogy? How persuasive is such an analogy? Is Socrates right that cities are somehow like souls?

Attached is the book and only portion of BookII should be involve in discussion

ANSWER

Plato’s Republic, Book II

By the beginning of Book II of The Republic, Socrates believes he has responded adequately to Thrasymachus on the significance of justice. However, others starting with Glaucon, still have more follow-up to Thrasymachus’ position. Glaucon offers that justice is not desirable. He further splits human desirable into three things desired for the consequences they possess like health treatment and fitness, things desired for their own sake like happiness, and the last category things desired for both their consequences and their own sake like knowledge. Glaucon considers the last category most important and places justice among them. In a further controversial approach, Glaucon says that the only reason humans are compelled to offer justice is that they are vulnerable and weak. Should humans not offer justice, then they would have to suffer the injustices of others too. He says, “we only suffer under the burden of justice because we know we would suffer worse without it” (Plato). In an analogy, Glaucon tells of the ring of Gyges. A ring that makes a person invisible and free to do anything without fear of reprisal. He suggests that should such a ring be given to anyone, even the justest person, they would act unjustly in being “materialistic, power-hungry, and with erotically lustful urges” (Plato). The analogy proves that human beings are only to avoid the punishment of injustice and not because justice is desirable. To conclude his views, Glaucon points out that it would be more free and rational to lead an unjust life. Injustice is rewarded with wealth, while the only reward for justice is scorn and conflict.

Glaucon’s brother Adeimantus supports this view and further challenges Socrates to prove that people can be just without expecting the benefits of justice in life and the afterlife. He says that no one could praise justice for its own sake; justice is not desirable, unlike knowledge, joy, and health.

I disagree with both Glaucon and Adeimantus. In fact, I would take the direct inverse of their claim and say that justice is desirable. In this case, justice would refer to the innate primal need for every human to be good, and to do good, what others have referred to as humanity. When you find a person walking on the frozen cold without shoes, and you have two pairs, your first impulse will be to give him or her one pair of shoes. This act is not because someone is watching or there will be rewards later from humanitarian organizations or the afterlife by God but because every human’s first need before they are corrupted is to end others’ suffering. For instance, in several instances, I have been engaged with children, little children who understand very little. When handed a cookie, in the presence of other children or myself, an adult, the child takes a bite of the cookie and then passes it off to his or her peers or me whether I asked it or not. This proves that justice is desirable; we all want to be just before anything else. If we had the ring of Gyges, the first impulse would be to end suffering through the best available means.

Socrates further expounds on the soul and the city. He talks of a city of producers where only what is needed is produced in which Glaucon refers to as a city of pigs. However, other components in the city like luxury and art prompt warriors to champion right from wrong since the city is now expanded with more desires and surplus. By this logic, that city is indeed like a soul.

References

Jowett, B. (Ed.). (1888). The republic of Plato. London; New York: Macmillan.